Discussion:
DCSS - DEFE-27 Should i tackle the Hells?
(too old to reply)
Svankensen
2010-04-02 22:57:57 UTC
Permalink
So...

This is my best caster so far (and first Sif Munite i've played,
Vehumet is done for). Great mutations (and 2 or 3 cure mutations
left!!, i've gotten like 7 in this game), great items, awesome damage
output, and had great EV in the begining, allowing me to train
fighting to a good level early.

The thing is, it is going great, i've got almost every spell at my
disposal, and i've never beaten the game with a caster before, so im
tempted to just leave it as it is, and just end the game at once (no
fear for Zot in my hearth, altrough i should be respectfull). The
other option is obvious: Tackle most optional branches, specially the
Hells and make this the greatest character i've played.

So:
- No resist corrosion, so no slime pits for now? (i have lots of
enchant armor tough, is just that the corrosive damage is awfully
large, aor was last time i tried)

- The crypt was a breeze with the Sword of Jihad to animate with
Tukimas Dance. Should i do Tombs? (and maybe learn apportation =p)?

- Got in the Abyss and it wasnt too rough with my boots of running and
Haste, just lost a couple of scrolls.

- I've got most interesting late game spells in my books: B's
Revivification, Death Doors, great summons (no summon greater Demon
tough), controlled Blink, Etc. Suggestions on what skill to train in
order to be safe? Or go on with fire in order to get rid of wizardry?

- Got lots of food, should i try training fighting some more? I can
get a lot of EV with my EV gear (like 39 without forescry)

- Should i Use the staff of wizardry instead of the ring, and let go
that nice early game bow (that adds rF+ and evasion)?

- Im partially low in resistances, as i cant get two from rF, rN and
rC at max at the same time without sacrificing reliablility in Fire
Storm and deflect missiles. Any strange advice?

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.5.2 (crawl-ref) character file.

Calcifer the Annihilator (DEFE) Turns: 192505, Time: 13:39:17

HP 125/125 AC 20 Str 8 Exp: 27/1220030 (3)
MP 48/48 EV 23 Int 36 God: Sif Muna ******
Gold 5192 SH 0 Dex 16 Spells: 14 memorised, 3 levels
left

Res.Fire : + + . See Invis. : . a - +6,+0 bow of Deflation
{+Blink +Map rF+ EV
Res.Cold : + + . Warding : . G - +5 robe of Ephu {+Blink rC++
Acc+2 Curse}
Life Prot.: + . . Conserve : . (no shield)
Res.Poison: + Res.Corr. : . s - +2 orc golden helmet {Int+3}
Res.Elec. : + Clarity : . h - +2 cloak {rPois}
S - +2 pair of dwarf gloves {Dex
+3}
Sust.Abil.: . Rnd.Telep. : . n - +2 pair of elf boots {run}
Res.Mut. : . Ctrl.Telep.: . H - amulet of the gourmand
Res.Slow : . Levitation : . R - ring of Shileby {Hunger-
+Blink rN+ Dex-1}
Gourmand : + Ctrl.Flight: . j - ring of wizardry

@: quick, incredibly resistant to magic, very stealthy
A: fire resistance 1, electricity resistance, magic resistance 1,
mutation resistance 1, AC +1, Int +1
a: Channel Energy, Forget Spell, Renounce Religion, Release Delayed
Fireball, Evoke Blink, Evoke Sense Surroundings


You are on level 2 of the Hive.
You worship Sif Muna.
Sif Muna is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 11 branches of the dungeon, and seen 75 of its
levels.
You have visited the Abyss 1 time.
You have visited 3 Labyrinths.
You have visited 1 portal chamber (including bazaars).

You have collected 8417 gold pieces.
You have spent 3243 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
a - the +6,+0 bow of Deflation (weapon) {+Blink +Map rF+ EV+4}
(You bought it in a shop on level 9 of the Dungeon)
It affects your evasion (+4).
It protects you from fire.
It lets you blink.
It lets you sense your surroundings.
N - the +12,+10 sword of Jihad {holy, *Rage rN+ MR EV+3 Stlth--}
(You found it on level 8 of the Vaults)
A long sword made of one huge piece of crystal.
It has been blessed by the Shining One to cause great damage to the
undead
and the unholy creatures of Hell or Pandemonium.
It affects your evasion (+3).
It protects you from negative energy.
It increases your resistance to enchantments.
It makes you angry.
It makes you much less stealthy.
This sword was The Shining One's gift to a worshipper.
U - the short sword of the Portal Chambers {drain, Noisy +Lev rElec}
(You found it on level 5 of the Crypt)
A truly terrible weapon, it drains the life of those it strikes.
It insulates you from electricity.
It lets you levitate.
It makes noises.
Missiles
M - 25 elven arrows (quivered)
Armour
h - a +2 cloak of poison resistance (worn)
n - a +2 pair of elven boots of running (worn) <Cant love these
enough!!!!>
s - a +2 orcish golden helmet of intelligence (worn)
y - the +0 helmet "Pliac" {rF+}
(You bought it in a shop in a bazaar)
It protects you from fire.
G - the +5 robe of Ephu (worn) {+Blink rC++ Acc+2 Curse}
(You took it off a naga on level 2 of the Snake Pit)
It affects your accuracy (+2).
It greatly protects you from cold.
It lets you blink.
It may recurse itself.
S - a +2 pair of dwarven gloves of dexterity (worn)
Magical devices
k - a wand of teleportation (8)
p - a wand of lightning (4)
q - a wand of draining (8)
x - a wand of digging (9)
K - a wand of teleportation (4)
W - a wand of disintegration (14)
X - a wand of draining
Z - a wand of disintegration
Comestibles
Q - 7 chokos
Scrolls
f - 6 scrolls of identify
l - a scroll of blinking
t - 2 scrolls of remove curse
A - a scroll of magic mapping
L - 4 scrolls of fog
Jewellery
b - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
c - an uncursed ring of see invisible
d - an uncursed amulet of resist mutation
i - the amulet of Eternal Night {rSlow EV+4 Acc+4}
(You acquired it on level 8 of the Vaults)
[amulet of resist slowing]
It affects your evasion (+4).
It affects your accuracy (+4).
j - a ring of wizardry (left hand)
r - the amulet "Pyoliuti" {Ward rC+ MR Int+1}
(You found it on level 8 of the Vaults)
[amulet of warding]
It affects your intelligence (+1).
It protects you from cold.
It increases your resistance to enchantments.
u - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
w - an uncursed ring of fire
D - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
E - the ring of Virtue {AC+5 MP+9}
(You found it on level 8 of the Vaults)
[ring of magical power]
It affects your AC (+5).
H - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
J - the ring "Omoidah" {EV+4 Int+3}
(You found it on level 8 of the Vaults)
[ring of evasion]
It affects your evasion (+4).
It affects your intelligence (+3).
O - an uncursed ring of teleportation
P - the ring of the Gastropod {+Blink Int+3 Dam+2}
(You acquired it on level 3 of the Crypt)
[ring of intelligence]
It affects your intelligence (+3).
It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+2).
It lets you blink.
R - the ring of Shileby (right hand) {Hunger- +Blink rN+ Dex-1}
(You found it on level 7 of the Elven Halls)
[ring of sustenance]
It affects your dexterity (-1).
It protects you from negative energy.
It lets you blink.
T - an uncursed ring of regeneration
Potions
e - a potion of restore abilities
g - 8 potions of healing
m - a potion of magic
C - 2 potions of speed
I - 4 potions of heal wounds
V - a potion of levitation
Books
o - Norris' Compendium of Infatuation
(You found it on level 7 of the Elven Halls)
Spells Type Level
Confusing Touch Enchantment 1
Lethal Infusion Enchantment/Necromancy 2
*Tukima's Dance Enchantment 3
Control Teleport Enchantment/Translocation 4
Silence Enchantment/Air 5

z - a manual of Spellcasting
B - a book of Fire {god gift}
Spells Type Level
Evaporate Fire/Transmutation 2
Fire Brand Enchantment/Fire 2
Summon Elemental Summoning 4
Bolt of Magma Conjuration/Fire/Earth 5
Ignite Poison Fire/Transmutation 6
*Delayed Fireball Conjuration/Fire 7
Ring of Flames Enchantment/Fire 8

Magical staves
Y - a rod of smiting (12/12)
(You found it on level 23 of the Dungeon)
Miscellaneous
F - a lantern of shadows


You have 3 experience left.

Skills:
+ Level 5 Fighting
- Level 5 Short Blades
- Level 1 Darts
+ Level 12 Dodging
- Level 7 Stealth
+ Level 4 Traps & Doors
+ Level 21 Spellcasting
* Level 27 Conjurations
+ Level 14 Enchantments
+ Level 2 Summonings
+ Level 9 Necromancy
+ Level 3 Translocations
+ Level 1 Transmutations
- Level 8 Divinations
+ Level 21 Fire Magic
- Level 2 Air Magic
+ Level 8 Earth Magic
- Level 1 Poison Magic
- Level 6 Invocations
+ Level 3 Evocations


You have 3 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

Your Spells Type Power Success
Level
a - Bolt of Fire Fire/Conj #########. Perfect 6
b - Lehudib's Crystal Sp Erth/Conj #########. Excellent 8
c - Dispel Undead Necr ########. Excellent 4
d - Haste Ench ########.. Excellent 6
e - Fireball Fire/Conj #########. Perfect 6
f - Detect Creatures Divn ####### Excellent 2
g - Fire Storm Fire/Conj #########. Excellent 9
h - Delayed Fireball Fire/Conj N/A Excellent 7
i - Iskenderun's Mystic Conj ######### Perfect 4
j - Deflect Missiles Air/Ench ########.. Excellent 6
k - Blink Tloc N/A Excellent 2
l - Selective Amnesia Ench N/A Excellent 4
m - Summon Scorpions Pois/Summ #######... Excellent 4
n - Tukima's Dance Ench ########.. Perfect 3

*************************
Now without Wizardry
*************************
a - Bolt of Fire Fire/Conj #########. Perfect 6
b - Lehudib's Crystal Sp Erth/Conj #########. Excellent 8
c - Dispel Undead Necr ########. Excellent 4
d - Haste Ench ########.. Excellent 6
e - Fireball Fire/Conj #########. Perfect 6
f - Detect Creatures Divn ####### Excellent 2
g - Fire Storm Fire/Conj #########. Great 9
h - Delayed Fireball Fire/Conj N/A Excellent 7
i - Iskenderun's Mystic Conj ######### Perfect 4
j - Deflect Missiles Air/Ench #######... Great 6
k - Blink Tloc N/A Excellent 2
l - Selective Amnesia Ench N/A Excellent 4
m - Summon Scorpions Pois/Summ ######.... Excellent 4
n - Tukima's Dance Ench ########.. Perfect 3

**************************
Doesnt look that bad, but i fear for Deflect missiles
**************************


Overview of the Dungeon

Branches: (use G to reach them and ?/B for more information)
Temple: D:6 Orc : D:6 Elf : Orc:4 Lair : D:9
Swamp : Lair:2 Slime : Lair:9 Snake : Lair:3 Hive : D:13
Vault : D:19 Blade : Vault:5 Crypt : Vault:3 Tomb : Crypt:3
Zot : D:27

Altars: (use Ctrl-F "altar" to reach them and ?/G for information
about gods)
Sif Muna: D:25, Vault:2
The Shining One: Vault:2
Kikubaaqudgha: D:4
Yredelemnul: D:17, Crypt:5
Vehumet: Elf:1
Makhleb: D:11

Shops: (use Ctrl-F "shop" to reach them)
D:4: [ D:9: [*(+ D:10: * D:22: ( D:23: ( D:24: ? D:27: !
Elf:3: ( Elf:5: ? Lair:4: ( Lair:5: [ Lair:8: + Lair:9: *[(*
Swamp:4: = Vault:3: + Vault:6: !

Portals:
Hell: D:21 D:22 D:23 D:24 D:25 D:26 D:27
Abyss: D:25
Pan: D:23 D:24 D:26


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

Your mind is acute (Int +1).
Your flesh is heat resistant.
You are resistant to electric shocks.
You are resistant to magic.
You are somewhat resistant to further mutation.
You are partially covered in speckled scales (AC +1).
David Ploog
2010-04-02 23:51:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Svankensen
- No resist corrosion, so no slime pits for now? (i have lots of
enchant armor tough, is just that the corrosive damage is awfully
large, aor was last time i tried)
You can do Slime without rCorr just fine, especially as a caster.
Post by Svankensen
- The crypt was a breeze with the Sword of Jihad to animate with
Tukimas Dance. Should i do Tombs? (and maybe learn apportation =p)?
Have you done Tombs before? Slime should be okay; Tomb may backfire.
Post by Svankensen
- Got lots of food, should i try training fighting some more? I can
get a lot of EV with my EV gear (like 39 without forescry)
I don't know -- I've died often enough training Fighting "just a little
bit more".
Post by Svankensen
- Im partially low in resistances, as i cant get two from rF, rN and
rC at max at the same time without sacrificing reliablility in Fire
Storm and deflect missiles. Any strange advice?
I'd use a ring of fire. You have rC++ from the robe, and the ring would
boost your main attack spells some more.
Post by Svankensen
A: fire resistance 1, electricity resistance, magic resistance 1,
mutation resistance 1, AC +1, Int +1
Lucky mutations. Did you alter self?
Post by Svankensen
a - the +6,+0 bow of Deflation (weapon) {+Blink +Map rF+ EV+4}
This is not awesome, given your place, but as a source of rF not too
shabby. You play 0.5 (because of the +Map).
Post by Svankensen
N - the +12,+10 sword of Jihad {holy, *Rage rN+ MR EV+3 Stlth--}
The *Rage is very risky. I wouldn't use it.
Post by Svankensen
b - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
c - an uncursed ring of see invisible
d - an uncursed amulet of resist mutation
i - the amulet of Eternal Night {rSlow EV+4 Acc+4}
j - a ring of wizardry (left hand)
r - the amulet "Pyoliuti" {Ward rC+ MR Int+1}
u - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
w - an uncursed ring of fire
D - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
E - the ring of Virtue {AC+5 MP+9}
H - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
Is hunger still a problem? If so, Pyoluiti and Shileby seem more
interesting. Also, Eternal Night will work great with Jihad -- this would
allow to do Crypt with melee, safely.
Post by Svankensen
J - the ring "Omoidah" {EV+4 Int+3}
P - the ring of the Gastropod {+Blink Int+3 Dam+2}
R - the ring of Shileby (right hand) {Hunger- +Blink rN+ Dex-1}
T - an uncursed ring of regeneration
Why do you carry so many rings? I guess only for purposes of this dump.

I don't believe that you need wizardry items, given your skills and
intelligence. Shouldn't you be much better off with boosters (like ring of
fire or staff of conjuration)? If not, we have clearly nerfed boosters too
hard.
Post by Svankensen
+ Level 5 Fighting
- Level 5 Short Blades
- Level 1 Darts
+ Level 12 Dodging
- Level 7 Stealth
+ Level 4 Traps & Doors
+ Level 21 Spellcasting
* Level 27 Conjurations
+ Level 14 Enchantments
+ Level 2 Summonings
+ Level 9 Necromancy
+ Level 3 Translocations
+ Level 1 Transmutations
- Level 8 Divinations
+ Level 21 Fire Magic
- Level 2 Air Magic
+ Level 8 Earth Magic
- Level 1 Poison Magic
- Level 6 Invocations
+ Level 3 Evocations
Your Spells Type Power Success
Level
a - Bolt of Fire Fire/Conj #########. Perfect 6
b - Lehudib's Crystal Sp Erth/Conj #########. Excellent 8
c - Dispel Undead Necr ########. Excellent 4
d - Haste Ench ########.. Excellent 6
e - Fireball Fire/Conj #########. Perfect 6
f - Detect Creatures Divn ####### Excellent 2
g - Fire Storm Fire/Conj #########. Excellent 9
h - Delayed Fireball Fire/Conj N/A Excellent 7
i - Iskenderun's Mystic Conj ######### Perfect 4
j - Deflect Missiles Air/Ench ########.. Excellent 6
k - Blink Tloc N/A Excellent 2
l - Selective Amnesia Ench N/A Excellent 4
m - Summon Scorpions Pois/Summ #######... Excellent 4
n - Tukima's Dance Ench ########.. Perfect 3
*************************
Now without Wizardry
*************************
a - Bolt of Fire Fire/Conj #########. Perfect 6
b - Lehudib's Crystal Sp Erth/Conj #########. Excellent 8
c - Dispel Undead Necr ########. Excellent 4
d - Haste Ench ########.. Excellent 6
e - Fireball Fire/Conj #########. Perfect 6
f - Detect Creatures Divn ####### Excellent 2
g - Fire Storm Fire/Conj #########. Great 9
h - Delayed Fireball Fire/Conj N/A Excellent 7
i - Iskenderun's Mystic Conj ######### Perfect 4
j - Deflect Missiles Air/Ench #######... Great 6
k - Blink Tloc N/A Excellent 2
l - Selective Amnesia Ench N/A Excellent 4
m - Summon Scorpions Pois/Summ ######.... Excellent 4
n - Tukima's Dance Ench ########.. Perfect 3
**************************
Doesnt look that bad, but i fear for Deflect missiles
**************************
That's not worth the item slot for wizardry, in my opinion. Your EV is
very good anyway.

Good luck!
David
Svankensen
2010-04-03 02:29:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Ploog
Post by Svankensen
- The crypt was a breeze with the Sword of Jihad to animate with
Tukimas Dance. Should i do Tombs? (and maybe learn apportation =p)?
Have you done Tombs before? Slime should be okay; Tomb may backfire.
Never. Is it THAT hard? I will stay away from it then. Are hells
tougher or easier than tombs?
Post by David Ploog
Post by Svankensen
- Im partially low in resistances, as i cant get two from rF, rN and
rC at max at the same time without sacrificing reliablility in Fire
Storm and deflect missiles. Any strange advice?
I'd use a ring of fire. You have rC++ from the robe, and the ring would
boost your main attack spells some more.
Cant hurt to give it a shot (not really true for anything Crawl
related, but still...)
Post by David Ploog
Post by Svankensen
A: fire resistance 1, electricity resistance, magic resistance 1,
mutation resistance 1, AC +1, Int +1
Lucky mutations. Did you alter self?
No, just tried a lot with the big pack of cure mutations i got. I've
gotten the around the same number of heal wounds and cure mutation
potions: 9 heal wounds, and 7 cure mutation (+ 2 in a bazaar when
broke). It really was -1 int, but when i quaff IDd a mutation pot, and
got the mutation resistance and +2 int i called it a night and didnt
experiment anymore. I mean, i still have 3 more pots, but it is hard
to get that kind of mutations all together. This char has been so
predictable that i dont intend to make it more chancy to play.

Anyway, i was just test IDing a deck that turned out to be a deck of
wonders, taking away mutation resistance, resist fire and +1 int.
Still a couple good mutations left, but no as good as before.
Post by David Ploog
Post by Svankensen
a - the +6,+0 bow of Deflation (weapon) {+Blink +Map rF+ EV+4}
This is not awesome, given your place, but as a source of rF not too
shabby. You play 0.5 (because of the +Map).
Yeah, no abundant sources of rF in my game, but anyway, its just to be
on the safe side, as offensive hasnt been a problem.
Post by David Ploog
Post by Svankensen
N - the +12,+10 sword of Jihad {holy, *Rage rN+ MR EV+3 Stlth--}
The *Rage is very risky. I wouldn't use it.
I animate it with Tukimas Dance, I don use it for training fighting.
Post by David Ploog
Post by Svankensen
b - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
c - an uncursed ring of see invisible
d - an uncursed amulet of resist mutation
i - the amulet of Eternal Night {rSlow EV+4 Acc+4}
j - a ring of wizardry (left hand)
r - the amulet "Pyoliuti" {Ward rC+ MR Int+1}
u - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
w - an uncursed ring of fire
D - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
E - the ring of Virtue {AC+5 MP+9}
H - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
Is hunger still a problem? If so, Pyoluiti and Shileby seem more
interesting. Also, Eternal Night will work great with Jihad -- this would
allow to do Crypt with melee, safely.
Oh i just had come back from the Crypt and was hunting some killer
bees to get engorded. Sadly, I didnt think of doing the crypt with
said sword. It woul've really trained my fighting skills, thus giving
me some more HP.
Post by David Ploog
Post by Svankensen
J - the ring "Omoidah" {EV+4 Int+3}
P - the ring of the Gastropod {+Blink Int+3 Dam+2}
R - the ring of Shileby (right hand) {Hunger- +Blink rN+ Dex-1}
T - an uncursed ring of regeneration
Why do you carry so many rings? I guess only for purposes of this dump.
Kind of, went on a killing spree, so i got a lot of rings down there.
Post by David Ploog
I don't believe that you need wizardry items, given your skills and
intelligence. Shouldn't you be much better off with boosters (like ring of
fire or staff of conjuration)? If not, we have clearly nerfed boosters too
hard.
Really, it was just to be on the safe side. the spells where on "very
good" before crypt, and i have been taking things slowly, so not a
real need for firepower, just doing the old pattern: "Deflect on most
of the time, if thing gets serious, Haste, if things COULD turn really
serious, run and channel energy, and come back rested" Miscasting a
Deflect or your last Firestorm ona critical moment seemed more
dangerous than taking some more time to kill the baddies. I really
didnt even try the boosters. (I used to use them a lot, so i decided
to shun them this time, specially for the resistance shifting it does)
Post by David Ploog
That's not worth the item slot for wizardry, in my opinion. Your EV is
very good anyway.
Well, i may drop it, but, anyway, i can get as high as 47 EV, a little
less (42 or so) if i am carefull with the resistances.

How good is really EV as a defence? Is it worth investing heavily on
it?
(I've got 2 +5 rings, +4 weapons, forescry, and a +4 ring that gives
int too.)

My question comes from the fact that I am really killing everything in
sight with 2 castings of FireStorm at most, so i dont feel like i need
more power, just more backups. Would an executioner be less menacing
if i have 40 EV for example?I've never used an EV fighter, so i
wouldnt know
Post by David Ploog
Good luck!
David
Godd luck to you too.
tenaya
2010-04-05 19:55:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Svankensen
Post by David Ploog
Post by Svankensen
- The crypt was a breeze with the Sword of Jihad to animate with
Tukimas Dance. Should i do Tombs? (and maybe learn apportation =p)?
Have you done Tombs before? Slime should be okay; Tomb may backfire.
Never. Is it THAT hard? I will stay away from it then. Are hells
tougher or easier than tombs?
Hells are more predictable (although I don't know if I have ever
killed Ante in Coc:7). Tomb can go bad really fast.
"Look, a sphinx, no problem."
"oh wait, 5 of them and a mummy priest"
is not atypical for Tomb:1.

After that things can get difficult.
Post by Svankensen
How good is really EV as a defence? Is it worth investing heavily on
it?
I don't know about that, but any type of fiend and greater mummies can
cast torment for big ouch. Also watch out for smiters.

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